David Stewart 0:01

Welcome to the podcast. I'm David Stewart, editor in chief of Tax Notes Today International. This week: virtual success. The spread of coronavirus affected the tax world like many other industries. Virtual conferences soon replaced in-person gatherings and everyday meetings turned into zoom calls in this new work-from-home environment. But the pandemic also brought with it a new set of challenges for tax professionals. Across the globe, tax administrations were issuing new guidance and regulations at rapid speed to keep up with the tax changes included in COVID-19 legislation. And in the U.S., practitioners faced an extended individual income tax season fraught with questions. To state the obvious, 2020 has been a tough year. So, we're taking a break from our usual tax topics to discuss how to survive, and possibly even thrive, in your personal and professional life during the pandemic. Here to talk more about this is Tax Notes State Editor in Chief Jéanne Rauch-Zender. Jéanne, welcome back to the podcast.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 1:00

Thank you, Dave. It's great to be back.

David Stewart 1:01

Now, you recently did an interview on this subject. Can you tell us about your guest?

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 1:05

I chatted with Amy Vetter, who is a CPA, entrepreneur, author, and yogi, among many other things. She is a keynote speaker and presents on topics ranging from leadership and employee engagement to digital transformation and mindfulness.

David Stewart 1:18

And what did you talk about?

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 1:20

We discussed the importance of achieving work-life harmony rather than balance and the need to make time for yourself. We also talked about how to succeed professionally in today's virtual world.

David Stewart 1:30

All right , let's go to that interview.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 1:33

Hi, Amy. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Amy Vetter 1:36

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 1:37

So, CPA, entrepreneur, yogi: Will you share with us a little bit about your journey?

Amy Vetter 1:42

Sure. So, I grew up working in my mom's business that was maid services doing kind of odds and ends of everything that needed to be done in the office, and also had a grandfather that was a CPA. So, I was definitely very business minded and had a lot of stories about what it was like to be a CPA. And so very early on, I had the goal of becoming a CPA and went the traditional route. When I went to college, started out in audits, started at what's now a Big Four firm, and have made a lot of pivots along the way in my career where I've owned my own practice. I've been a partner in a CPA firm. I've worked for the major accounting technology software companies. And now I'm in business for myself doing advisory work and speaking.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 2:38

That's great. And I love the several pivots along your journey. That's what makes the experience so unique. One thing I wanted to catch up with you today about is the term work-life balance. It's been tossed around for several years. I was really interested to see that you essentially say it's nearly impossible to achieve work-life balance, and that our goal should be to approach this relationship as work-life harmony. You concede that it's a difficult task, but you do provide several strategies that CEOs use to manage their work-life harmony. I was hoping you would discuss some of these strategies with us.

Amy Vetter 3:09

Sure. So, I changed the term a bit because very often the term work-life balance can cause stress itself because we can feel we're not balanced. And then we're told we need balance. And then we force ourselves to do certain things or think we have to spend a certain amount of time on what we consider work-life balance. And then we are never fully getting the effect that we want from it. And so, I coined the term work-life harmony. Basically my background, besides being an accountant, has been heavily into music. And, you know, when you're playing music, harmonies go up and down. They're short. They're long. And really that seemed to be a better reflection of what I was trying to get across. That, you know, really to achieve what, you know, would be called work-life balance, it's important that we're getting freedom. We're getting release from the stressors that we have in our day of how we feel in our bodies. And it's important that we identify what those things are that help us release those stressors and not put parameters around it. Like number one, looking at the person next to us and saying, "Oh, well, they run. So running must do it." So, we've got to go on our own journey of figuring out what things for us really work, where time just kind of disappears. And also not put the pressure on ourselves that it has to be a certain amount of time. All the research that's out there [says] it could be five minutes. It could be an hour. It could be two hours. It really isn't about the quantity of time. It's about the quality of what you're doing to help you release that stress in your body. So, when I talk about harmony, it's really, you know, it could be taking a break during the day and listening to music, going on a walk, whatever it is to just kind of release your brain. Or, you know, truly setting time aside to exercise or to paint or to do things that are longer activities but help you release the stress that you've had in your day. So, the term is really to help with taking the stress away from the term balance, but really finding what works for you and how to fit it in and the right parts of your day without creating more stress for yourself.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 5:33

I agree. I love that actually. And I love that you note quality over quantity. I couldn't agree more. And I do agree with you that the term balance does create stress. Harmony and recognizing the ebb and flow seems easier to measure. Now, tell me, do you think that these strategies or this harmony that we're working toward, do you believe it's changed under COVID to avoid burnout?

Amy Vetter 5:53

Well, I think people's way of working has changed. You know, I've worked remote for most of my career, so I was used to it. But I would say even having worked remote most of my career, this is still very different because I'm not traveling as much or getting out and seeing people. And so that really does adjust how your body is feeling and having that awareness of how you're feeling. And a lot of people, this is the first time they've been remote and really haven't figured out how to balance their day. Which you know, between if they have kids, you know, all the schoolwork and homeschooling that's going on as well as just the demands of the day. And it's really important that you do your own personal inventory of how your day is going and document what is happening during your day. Just like you would if you were going on a diet, which isn't fun either, to write down all the things that you're eating. But there's a reason that you do it so that you have a very honest look at the food you're eating. When you go graze. When you're eating things that really aren't serving you. And it's the same thing when you do this on your calendar in your day. So, when you write down throughout the day what are the things you're doing. When were you "multitasking?" You know, where did your attention float? Where did you start working overtime ? Where did you start feeling like you were stressed out because you had too many meetings back to back? Where did you notice that you didn't have time for yourself in the day? And so forth. And really start looking at what is happening in your day and how could you reconfigure it? So, for instance, you know, one of the ways you look at it is where your energy is the best. And for me, I know that in the morning, I'm at my highest energy. Now, when I was younger, it was opposite. Where I had a lot of energy at the end of the workday. But, you know, for me now, I know if I am going to work out, it needs to be in the morning. If I need to get my own individual work done, it needs to be in the morning. Because that's where I'm more focused and have more energy. And as my day goes on, then I'm going to set more meetings with people throughout the day to keep my energy up. And also looking at for me I eat a small snack. Trying to look at how you stay healthy, when you do that, and make sure you have the right food around, you know, so that you aren't grazing food that saps your energy. But every two, two and a half hours, I have a plan for food as well in my day. And it's really important in regulating my energy and making sure I'm showing up the way that I want to. I can feel the difference if I haven't worked out in the morning for me. And like I said, what works for me doesn't mean it works for everybody. It doesn't mean working out gives everybody that feeling to reenergize them. It might be something completely different. But whatever that is, I can feel off if I don't work out in the morning and it will affect my day. You know, in my meetings and encounters with other people or family and so forth. So, it's really important to take that honest look at your calendar on your day. What you're actually doing versus what the calendar's saying and figure out, what can you eliminate? How do you reorganize things to go with the way your energy goes during the day to keep yourself at optimal energy? And you know , what things can you start prioritizing? So that at the end of the day, you can kind of review your day and say, you know, "I had an intention to get these one to three things done today and I did it." And instead of feeling like at the end of the day, "I know I was really busy. I'm just not even sure what I did and I didn't have any time for myself." So, being really intentional about your day can really help you with going through this change in the way that we work.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 9:53

What do you find to be the best ways right now to create professional connections virtually, as a handshake is no longer acceptable given the disruption of COVID-19?

Amy Vetter 10:01

Well, I think it's important that we, again, are very intentional about making these connections. They're not going to happen by happenstance, you know, because we see them at a meeting or a networking event and so forth. And it's important to actually make a list of people you want to reach out to, whether it's people you work with, you know, in close proximity or people that you might want to network with that don't necessarily even do what you do. But try to target each week how many people you want to reach out to and have those kinds of casual conversations as well. It doesn't always have to be business and agenda. You know, we lose some of that relaxed conversation with remote technology. So, it's important that we still create that. But also know how many reach-outs do you want to do a week? Do you want to, you know , have someone that you work with? You know, have one different person that you talk to each week and then reach out to someone you don't know or that you want to get to know better and so forth to have a meaning as well. So, just because we're virtual doesn't mean these things can't happen. It's just that it's not going to happen because we bumped into them. It's important that we still target who we want to talk to each week as well.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 11:23

Yes, I like your suggestion as far as making note. And I think that it's easier to measure your progress, so to speak, if you're measuring the targets that you've set for yourself. And perhaps that will help you stay motivated as well. I'm excited to hear your thoughts on taking risks. You state that it's important to take risks to rise above the competition, knowing failure will be a part of the equation. However, as a result of COVID, employment is very fragile for many people right now. How do you embrace risks with the possibility of failure during such a fragile time in the job market?

Amy Vetter 11:54

Well, I think there's a portion of everything we do in our jobs that we're always looking forward. And I know that this has been one of those times that has probably been the strangest times to try to plan and look forward. But I think we're closer to knowing, at least if things are the way they are, how things operate today. And first off, we want to look at what's working. What's not working. And what do we want to do different going forward. And that's a really important discussion to have with yourself, with your team, the people you work for. So that if there's adjustments you need to make, that you're making those adjustments going forward into the next, you know , three to six months. Now, the way that I always look at innovation, or if you want to call it risk, is that 20 percent of what we do should always be forward-looking, and research and development, and what are the latest tools or processes or ideas that we have that we want to test. So, it's not taking risk in total. It's actually freeing up some time, whether that's you or you hire someone else to help you with evaluating something that you've never done before. But looking out and doing research in the market and having that creative time -- and that's why it's so important to scope out our calendar, to make sure we scope time for thinking and creativity. But actually looking at what thing, what service, what product , what process would we want to test to see that would keep us ahead of the game going into next year or two years after as well. And we know in that 20 percent that it may not be something we want to do after we've tested it. And that's OK. So, when I talk about failure, it's not necessarily that you did anything wrong. It's that the idea isn't really something to keep pushing forward on. And I think we make mistakes sometimes because we put time into something and we see it's not working, we don't like giving it up because we've already put investment in it. So if we can do it safely and scope it out where we're not taking a risk on the total job we're doing, we're actually looking at, you know, 20 percent of our time of really researching and looking for new creative ideas going forward. And if they work out and there seems like there's some legs to it, that would be a major initiative for the next year because we tested it out. And that's one way to always make sure that you're staying ahead of the game, that you're staying innovative, that you're not becoming too complacent in the work that you're doing.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 14:42

Along those lines, what are the best ways to champion professional development for one of your employees? Being virtual is a little bit more difficult. You're not in the office. And as you stated earlier, it's not as easy as walking to the office next door or even across the building. What would you suggest as great ways if you've got employees that really are raising the bar and putting it all out there?

Amy Vetter 15:02

Well, I think it's important to be asking your employees what kind of professional development they want. So, going along that innovative path, you know, if they've been seeing trends, and so forth, that look interesting to them, I think it's important to give them the opportunity to feed into what professional development that they want as well. But it's also important when I was just talking about looking at what's working, what's not working, what do we want to do different. If we want people to keep growing and not be fearful of all the change, it's important that we scope out time for education and professional development so that they know we care about them as a person, as an employee that has career goals, and so forth. So, I think every conversation is very individual. And there is a meeting of the minds between what the business needs them to learn as far as tools and technology and processes that are just part of the business versus what are their stretch goals, what are other things that they want to grow or skills that they want to get better at so that they can feel good about the work that they're doing and feel personally fulfilled as well.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 16:15

You say it's very important to have idle moments of chitchat or water cooler moments despite the physical separation due to COVID. I couldn't agree more. I have my team meet weekly and we essentially spend 30 to 45 minutes just talking about everything but work. So, how important are these moments and will they keep teams motivated in this virtual world?

Amy Vetter 16:34

Well, I think it's really important to think about culture. You know, we have thought about it in an office environment traditionally, but maybe have not put as much thought to culture from a virtual standpoint and what tools we use for virtual connection, too. So, one of the tools I've always had is Slack. And I think that's been very important to utilize, rather than email, as much as possible. That you can create conversations in there and kind of be working together all day long, just as if you were sitting in an office together, which is important. And really, truly understanding the tools that you have and how to use them. So, like I said, if you're using Slack, make sure that there's parameters and rules around how you utilize Slack. What kind of communications go through there? And you might have fun channels that are, you know, about challenges or hobbies or activities or weekend ideas, that sort of thing. But that you are monitoring the number of channels that are in these tools so that they don't get unwieldy. And somebody is also monitoring communication and making sure that nothing gets nasty on there, too. That people aren't hiding behind writing things that could be taken in the wrong way. And then, we also want to make sure that you are putting parameters around what you use each communication tool for. So, if you have email, this is when to use email versus Slack versus instant messaging versus video calls. And, you know, if you're going to connect from a basis of even performance evaluations or giving hard feedback, you want to make sure that's not written. That you are turning on the webcam and making sure that you're connected as well. And then finding fun ways for people to connect, too. You know, one of the things when we go back to coming up with risk and research and ideas of new things that you might want to do in the business, is I've always paired up people in my businesses that don't necessarily work with each other every day, but to give them time each month to think about the business. They're the ones closest to the work, the activities, the clients, and so forth, and have them, you know , try to solve issues that they're seeing in the business. And I would call it coffee talk. I'd give them, you know, a gift certificate to Starbucks. They can go get their coffee and virtually meet together and make sure the webcam is on as well. So, there's lots of ways to still create culture, but it's got to be monitored just as much as culture would be monitored in an office situation, too .

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 19:21

I love that. You're right. I think it's very important to still ensure there is some aspect of fun because there is so much stress right now in this new virtual world. So many of us are working at maximum capacity and maximum speed right now. Along those lines, it is difficult to find ways to not only perform but excel with these COVID restrictions. Do you have any advice on how to essentially take it up a notch and actually excel?

Amy Vetter 19:44

Coming back to human connection, it's more important than ever. And, you know, if we use technology in the right way, and not be overusing it. But put parameters around that technology, meaning that if we're having a conversation with someone, the notifications aren't popping up, that we're taking our computers off the desk, and we're truly engaged with the person that we're with. We're going to find ways of connecting that are new to us, just different. And also being proactive with reaching out to customers and clients just to check in. It doesn't have to be work, right? That we're spending time checking in on them, too , so that they know we care. And by that, we keep building that relationship and making it stronger. So, if there was ever a time that accountants were needed, this is it. And it is the time to take advantage of that opportunity. That we're not just letting the work come over as a wave and take us away from people. That we're actually putting it in the right perspective so that we are dedicating enough time in our week to reach out to our clients. If we're working in a corporation, that we're reaching out to what I would consider your clients, but other internal departments in the business, to make sure that those relationships are solid and we understand what they're going through. And there might be things happening that we don't even realize that when we are proactive in reaching out to them, that will open up all new kinds of services or things that we can do to help them. So, take advantage of the fact that this is one of those times people do want to see that you care and this is really the time to build relationships.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 21:34

Yes, there are opportunities to grow these professional relationships right now. I agree. I'd like to wrap up our conversation today with one of your blog posts titled, "Change Begins With Us." You recognize our instinct in this time of unrest and real pain to turn outward with anger and frustration as we struggle with racism, prejudice, school shootings, the environment, and many other issues. You rightly explain feeling overwhelmed with where to begin, where to help, how to help. Many don't know the answers. We only know to remember the problems in hopes of bringing about change. But I wondered: Is that enough?

Amy Vetter 22:10

I think it's important that we are really clear on what's going on in our own bodies and our own minds. That we can get wrapped up in all the things we see on social media or people talking around us and then gossip. Whatever it is, it just starts escalating and that can affect our energy. And the way that we can truly help change is when we start making small little changes in our own lives that then provide positive energy to those around us. And not necessarily engage in negative rhetoric and conversation. That people see that we don't want to partake in that. And there's just little ways that we can set examples without having to make big proclamations about it. That it's about the way that we go about our life. And part of it is to really understand how we're feeling internally. And that can be through meditation, quiet walks. You know, sometimes when I go for a run, things come up for me as well. So, everyone, whatever that is that, you know, helps you to really understand what's going on internally for you, don't run away from it. Those are the moments that you should really sit with it. That you should allow it to come up for you. So that you're really clear on what is affecting your energy. It could be personal relationships. It could be everything happening in the world and so forth. And then if we know what is happening for us internally, then what can help us offset that feeling? So is it, you know, hobbies that we do? Is it, you know, little exercises that we need to do during the day before we go into a meeting to make sure that we come in with positive energy? Because energy is contagious. And we don't want to, you know, a lot of times we can leave an experience that is a bad one and blame the other person without really sitting with, what did I walk into that meeting with or that experience? What was the energy I walked in there with? And if we're really aware of how we're feeling, and we already feel depressed that day or sad that day or angry that day, then we know that we're going to have to shift how we go about that meeting so that we don't come off that way when we are encountering another person. And it's our responsibility to do the best that we can. It doesn't mean that we're going to be perfect. But we want to try to show up the best that we can so that we create the energy that we want around us. And when something isn't resonating with us, you know, that may be where you learn to exit. You know, if you can't leave a meeting, that you're staying quiet, maybe coming into your breath, whatever you have to do to help yourself to not engage in that. And then what you would have to do after the meeting or that experience with a person to be able to not bring that frustration into your next experience as well. So, what I would say is it starts with us is to take responsibility. We can't change other people and you may find yourself or hear yourself saying, you know, "I can't do this because my manager always says this." Or, you know, "They won't let me," and that sort of thing. And so if our conversation moves to that, then we should start thinking about, "Well, what things can I control?" Instead of what I can't control. And then start thinking about little things that we can do in our day to be able to overcome that so we can feel better during the day.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 25:45

I love that. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Amy Vetter 25:49

Well , sure. If you want more information on the work that I do. So, the methodology is called the B3 Method. It's business plus balance equals bliss. I have a book called Business, Balance, and Bliss that talks about lots of tips that you can put in your day. And also an online learning, which is called the B3 Method Institute, that will give you little learning lessons each week, just like we're talking about today. And then you set an intention and really try it for the week before you get your next lesson. And for those of you that want to go further, I have coaching and advisory services as well. So, if you go to amyvetter.com, you will find all that information there.

Jéanne Rauch-Zender 26:28

Wonderful. It's been a real pleasure chatting with you today, Amy. I have learned so much myself, so I really appreciate you taking the time to join us.

Amy Vetter 26:36

Thank you so much for having me on.

Coming Attractions with Faye McCray

David Stewart 26:39

And now coming attractions. Each week we highlight new and interesting commentary in our magazines. Joining me now from her home is Acquisitions and Engagement Editor in Chief Faye McCray. Faye, what will you have for us?

Faye McCray 26:50

Thank you, Dave. In Tax Notes Federal, William Ellis explores syndicated conservation easement transactions. Ryan Connelly and Diana Myers analogize cryptocurrency hard forks to stock splits or stock dividends. In Tax Notes State, Rick Handel and Brittnee Pool discuss the Multistate Tax Commission’s new draft statement concerning the ambiguities inherent in P.L. 86-272 and changes in technology and the way business is done. Dario Arezzo examines the Beginning Farmer Tax Credit Program. In Tax Notes International, Aleksandra Bal examines the European Commission’s plans to reform the VAT system by January 2025. Nana Ama Sarfo interviews tax attorney Loren Ponds about her path to the House Ways and Means Committee staff where she helped write the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. And on the Opinions page, Nana Ama Sarfo looks at the possibility of constructing an international tax convention as outlined in a report from the U.N. Financial Accountability, Transparency and Integrity panel. Marie Sapirie writes that the final regulations on the partial deduction for business meals provide relief to taxpayers.

In the Pages Sneak Peek

Faye McCray 27:58

And now, f or a closer look at the new addition to the Tax Notes website, here's Executive Editor for Commentary Jasper Smith.

Jasper Smith 28:05

Thanks, Faye. I'm here with Tax Analysts reference attorney Linda Friedman to discuss an exciting new tool available to Tax Notes subscribers. Linda is joining us by phone from her home in Arlington, Virginia. Welcome, Linda.

Linda Friedman 28:18

Hey, Jasper.

Jasper Smith 28:18

Can you tell us a little bit about this new tool and how it works?

Linda Friedman 28:23

Sure. The tool is called Document Comparison and it will run a redline showing the changes between the final reg and the proposed reg. When you see a Treasury decision on Tax Notes, there's an orange compare icon in the ribbon at the top, and you can click it to launch the tool. At first, you'll see the redline only, but you can switch your view to see the TD side by side with the redline. We've added a table of contents to help with navigation, and you can download the redline as a PDF.

Jasper Smith 28:52

Well, obviously I'm a little bit biased, but I really like this new feature. I see it as a true value add for our readers and I've already heard some fantastic feedback. So, let me ask: What generated the original idea to create it?

Linda Friedman 29:05

Yeah. A tax librarian at one of our subscriber firms contacted me and he explained that the tax attorneys at his firm always wanted to see the changes made in the final reg . So, he and the firm's document services team had been creating redlines on their own. And he suggested that if we could develop a tool to do it, it would help a lot of our readers.

Jasper Smith 29:27

It's always great when we can get feedback that improves our subscribers' experience. And actually Linda, you gave me a quote a while back that you found from Tax Analysts founder Tom Field, and I keep it on my desk. So, I'm paraphrasing it a bit for modern context, but it reads, "If anything you see in our content irks you, intrigues you, pleases you, or in any other way moves you to comment, please email us." And I think that's just a fantastic quote which so accurately sums up not just this project, but the way we feel t owards our audience in general. Now, with that in mind, Linda, can you tell listeners how they can contact y ou?

Linda Friedman 30:04

Sure. They can email me at linda.friedman@taxanalysts.org. And we would be so delighted to hear more ideas and suggestions like this one.

Jasper Smith 30:22

Well, thanks, Linda, it's been a pleasure talking to you as always. And you can learn more about the document comparison tool or try it out for yourself at taxnotes.com/compare. Back to you , Dave.

David Stewart 30:34

You can read all that and a lot more in the pages of Tax Notes Federal, State, and International. That's it for this week. You can follow me online @TaxStew, that's S-T-E-W. And be sure to follow @TaxNotes for all things tax. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions for a future episode, you can email us at podcast@taxanalysts .org . And as always, if you like what we're doing here, please leave a rating or review wherever you download this podcast. We'll be back next week with another episode of Tax Notes Talk.